2010 Rule changes

[druid]

Hello Druid,

We didn't say you had to use .50! We just said it is an option that you as the player can explore. We also allow pistols and pumps ( 20 year old tech also) but that doesn't mean you have to use them.

Tom

Hello Tom.

No, that's true - you didn't. But everywhere I look, chuckle-heads are [to quote THEM] "dying!" to use these new balls. Most of them weren't even breathing when these rounds were introduced and literally...have no idea what it's like. Those of us who WERE around know better...and are shrugged off as 'unchanging dinosaurs.' They should NOT be considered 'as an option' because of the things I've said. If I'm shot with one and the field/game rule is "quarter-sized dot" you can bet your bottom dollar or trophy I will NOT leave the field because the spot is too small to 'count'. THAT's going to start trouble that refs and Fields don't need. They already have enough on their plates...don't add this drama-ridden idea to everything else they have to worry about.

Druid, If what your saying is true, then you should hope the other team is shooting all 50 cal. because if you are shooting 68 cal then you would have a huge advantage.

Personally I am going to wait and see what these markers have to offer before making a decision on 50 cal.

From what I'm hearing 50 cal is more accurate at close rage, say 75 feet. There are many times when our front guys are closer than 75 feet from the opponent. So maybe some of the front guys should shoot 50 cal. and have the back guys shooting 68 cal. What ever the outcome this year will be an interesting year for paintball. We look forward to seeing everyone on the field this comeing year. - Failure to Flatline

I'd probably agree with you except that I subscribe to the "all things being equal" mindset that makes the game fair and fun...not the "All's fair in love and war" concept that has taken this sport down the tubes like it has.

Statistically speaking...so is the 6mm airsoft sized paintballs. I don't see any huge jump at them either.

You realize ASTM doesn't consider .50cal a paintball so all their testing of lenses, goggles, netting etc will have to be done again. Insurance companies won't allow use of .50cal until ASTM says it's ok, so if fields are smart they won't allow it either.
Kind of the wrong section for this debate tho. I agree with you Druid the .50 cal is stupid.

You know, I hadn't even considered posting that but since you did, you are absoLUTELY right. ALL safety gear items will have to fall under the new standard.......if that standard includes the .50 cal. Hell...masks themselves were a 'new thing' when we shot the .50 last...and they included shop goggles inside a Jason hockey mask-looking thing...or JT Whippersnappers for MotoCross. Even they were not unbreakable and we were all told not to shoot there specifically.
Yet back then, we still had our 'code" from years prior - No one was to be shot in the face or goggles [not on purpose anyway]. The tourney scene changed that but the woods guys remained loyal to the SPIRIT of the game...not rules-lawyering like is done today.

How many people would like me to show up to a field with 10 of my fellow SRT Officers wielding our FN303's from work? It's an air gun...it's less than 300 fps...and yet it was made for crowd control [prisoner control in my case] and is INTENDED to cause pain and damage. What would the rules committee say about that? The FS round is only a copy of the FN round and instead of a bismuth tip, it has paint. Big deal...you should see the damage it [our paint marking rounds] inflicts on covered skin in my prison. The term 'welt' doesn't even COVER it...

I hope this .50 cal push dies a fiery death with the FS round.

[druid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZabfFBZ0bQ&feature=sub

and finally

http://mcarterbrown.com/50ballistics/

Yes you can argue that lack of a chrono showing and other "empirical" testing items were mis-performed [on video] but it shows exactly what I've been saying.

...So I'm confidident in saying, "I rest my case."

[Hoot {MWB}]

Okay. Back to the new team size:

Now with a 7+1, what are you thinking for positons Tom? Something like this for Skills?:

Scout
Sniper
Heavy
Captain
Ranger
Ranger
Ranger
Ranger

[Warchild]

I don't see any reason to change that structure. I this is minimizes confusion since the league just finished its first year. It givesa place for pump players and it makes you really think about strategy.

[Whiskey]

I too would be happy with the same structure.. I did kind of like the idea of the either or scenario.. Where teams could have a scout but only 7 players on the field OR choose to use an extra player and use a sniper but NO scout and scout advantage.. But that I agree would add maybe a little too much confusion but could open the door for the teams that just can't find that extra guy...

On the .50 cal discussion.. Agreed the debate should be for every other site that is discussing it at this time... BUT also realize that Tom does work for a major distributor / company and if .50 takes off I imagine they will be selling markers and paint so it would be detrimental to the sport and a major sponsor to deny that revenue stream.. You may disagree with it so don't use it make sure your team doesn't use it but it truly is a To each their own situation.

[druid]

On the .50 cal discussion..
1. Agreed the debate should be for every other site that is discussing it at this time...
2. BUT also realize that Tom does work for a major distributor / company and if .50 takes off I imagine they will be selling markers and paint so it would be detrimental to the sport and a major sponsor to deny that revenue stream..
3. You may disagree with it so don't use it make sure your team doesn't use it but it truly is a To each their own situation.

1. I strongly disagree. If Tom/ the UWL considers it as "one option" then it needs to be addressed here. Perhaps another thread yes...but on this board and out in the open.
2. I have to say....So what? and "that's too bad." All this means to me is that Tom has a vested interest in making SURE that this gets allowed. That in itself creates a bias toward/in favor of the items in question. Detrimental to the sport? Are you kidding me? Not a chance. Detrimental to the company? Which one? The morons trying to push this down our throats? Or the dolts who see the "fast buck" and dive in head first to buy as much stock as they can to sell [local/distributors] to the unlearned masses? If a distributor buys a ton of this crap, that's their own fault. I'm not just going to sit idly by and watch it fall apart because two companies can't sell markers because of their "bad names" and "horrible business practices." And just so there's no mistake, I own SEVERAL SP markers. I like the markers but their business practices sucks. Kingman? I have owned more Spyders than I care to admit. Perhaps if they stepped up their [mediocre] productions, they'd do better business-wise.

The .50 cal was bad for the sport 15 years ago and today is no different. I'm sorry I don't see it from a "business man" point of view - nor could I care - I see it from a long-time player's standpoint..who has a cynical outlook on recent business practices behind moronic schemes like this. Is it going to hurt Tom's 'company/employment" selling this stuff? Only if they are stupid enough to fill a warehouse with this crap and it doesn't sell.
You guys will not sway me on this, so stop trying. I will speak out against it so long as the idea remains plausible or even probable.

[Lewthor]

I don't think the either scout or sniper choice would be too confusing. You only make the choice once, when you sign up. If there are 7 people on the field 1 is a scout, if there are 8, 1 is a sniper.

I'd also think about limiting RoF. (Which is why I suggested 1 battery) It's really easy for any of the new electro's to just pump out 13-15BPS. It takes no skill to do that as any monkey can flick a micro switch fast. I thought the reason we played in the woods was to get away from the speedball style of play. Limiting RoF by loader voltage isn't very effective. Some electro's can only be set to 11 or 13bps minimum, do we really need that? 1 battery limits RoF to the annoyance of shake and bake or whatever you can manage to do with your mech gun. Even the most skilled 'cocker shooter might hit 12-13bps but can't sustain it for long. That also makes use of the X7's and BT guns more evenly matched. A5's would even be at an advantage as they can have an Egrip and still have force feed. The BTTM-7/15 might be a bit unfair, but that's another argument.

[tomrcole]

morons
dolts
unlearned masses
horrible business practices
business practices sucks
[mediocre] productions
moronic schemes
stupid

all of that in one post.
This is a forum about a debate on new rules of the UWL! and since you also said " You guys will not sway me on this, so stop trying" It is no longer a debate I now know your opinion and since as you also pointed out earlier you don't care about my opinion ,I will not bother you. Can move this argument on to PBnation or I will create a 50 cal debate thread if you would like. This is me asking, without any disrespect for your opinion or experience. but dont!!! disrespect my opinion or experience.

Tom Cole

[tomrcole]

I would like to keep as much the same as possible in 2010. The feedback I got was the format was fun. now with a season under our belts, teams can build and practice what they have learned. If we drop the size of the teams I think we would be best served by keeping the positions the same. I didnt get any complaints on the side of the events.
So we would always have a Sniper, Capt ,Scout and Heavy Gunner even if we ran a 5 man.
If you have any complaints about the balance of the positions now would be the time to vent!

I still think 10 man is the best team size for a woods format. The smaller the team the quicker the game. In a 10 man you can regroup retreat and come back or maybe I am just old:)

Tcole

[Lewthor]

I'd agree, 10man is the best size. But it's also difficult to get 10 people to commit to play. I know teams with 30+ members who barely got 10. 8 doesn't seem like a big difference but for the sake of fielding a team, it really helps.

I'd have to assume that since you made a separate division for non-pro's you got some complaints. Were people really scared of them as a team or because of the amount of paint they shot? If they had played with stock M98's would there be separate divisions? To me it seems like you made the tactical division to be what the UWL was supposed to be in the first place. I don't see why there needs to be any divisions if you limit RoF properly and give advantages to playing without electro's the odds can be made even.